2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Talk about you and your tank/equipment
rimai
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by rimai »

No, you need to either use a power supply connected on the relay box and use RA to turn on/off that port based on your current float switches or use a dedicated float that is not connected to RA to send the signal downstairs.
Optocouplers need power on both sides.
The upstairs one is getting the power from an external power supply (this way you don't have any chance of picking up noise by using RA power supply) and the downstairs can use the one from RA, since it is a short run.
What you are trying to do is avoiding sending wires that are connected to either +5 or GND in your RA through a long wire. It acts as an antenna and noise just travels through to RA, which can cause unexpected behaviors.
Roberto.
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lnevo
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2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

Ok. Now I got it. Ok 2 relays it will be..I can always replace all the wall warts with the 12V power module. And that would give me an extra 5 12V ports for something :) Except it might be good to have all the 12V ports with the solenoid valves downstairs. I hope taxes work out well this year...
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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

I decided what I will do. I am gong to use my computer as a proxy between the two ra's. I already query my ra once a minute. I will look for a flag to allow/disallow water change mode and a flag to enable/disable the ro filling. I will just use a timer with enough buffer to not run into issues (like 60% then fill to 80%. Why waste relays. :) Plus I can just have it run just a couple of times a day.... Gotta think of all the scenarios.
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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

So I've been thinking of how I'm going to run my salt mixing station. I will use the salinity module and the water level sensor and another pump. The pump will be set as an ATO but for salinity with the water level sensor acting as the failsafe along with a timeout. I can set it to use "water change mode" as the trigger, which would also disable the automatic water change until the new water is ready. Basically, the idea is that when water gets low, I'll run downstairs, turn on water change mode and dump a few cups of salt in. The RA will then start circulating the water and adding RO until the salinity reaches the target. Once there, it will continue mixing for x amount of time before disabling the water change mode and re-enable the auto-water change with the tank upstairs.

The overall idea is just add salt once or twice a week. What do you guys think?
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Sacohen
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by Sacohen »

It sounds good.

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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

Just ordered a 24V solenoid valve with 1/4" quick connects. I will tee off my RO/DI output and this will open up the connection upstairs to fill the ATO reservoir. I'll use the RO/DI pressure instead of using a seperate pump.

I decided I will be setting up my 10G QT tank with the third head on the ametek pump. Even if I'm not actively QT'ing anything, I can use it for rinse water :) i figure long term it would be better for all the heads to have the same amount of wear.

I received my new ReefAngel controller for the setup. I will be setting up a 5V power supply connected to an outlet on the RA upstairs to a relay downstairs which will be connected to one of the float switch ports. If this input is not "active" i will not run the RO or the AWC.

The float switch in the salt water bin is also going to be connected to the RA so when that flips the AWC will be disabled and I'll send myself an alert.

For the RO I will monitor the reservoir % from my Mac. When it gets to lets say 20% I'll have a cron job to let the other RA know to open the solenoid for an hour or so. If the % goes higher than lets say 90% I'll have the upstairs controller deactivate the control signal and send me an alarm.

The relays that will control the Ametek pump and the RO solenoid will both be powered by the same 24V power supply which will also power the pump and solenoid and each will be triggered separately by a 5V analog signal from the RA. This will give me endless scheduling flexibility and the capability to change on demand.

Now that the RA is here, I can get working on the programming. I'm still waiting on a PWM motor drive and now the solenoid. I'm waiting on zachts from RC to figure out the connectors to go from the ametek to the cheap 1/4" tubing, but I think otherwise I have everything ready to go. Just need a trip to radioshack for some wire and connectors to make it all happen.
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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

These are the relays I picked up, except mine are 24V

http://m.ebay.com/itm/400525119455

Solenoid:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/290836300351

PWM motor controller

http://m.ebay.com/itm/261099568424

Hope the links work...
rimai
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by rimai »

What's the motor controller for?
I saw the link, but didn't quite get it.
What is that pot and what is POW? :?
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Sacohen
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by Sacohen »

It's too slow down the water change pump to a crawl. Also the slower it run the quieter it is.

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lnevo
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2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

Yeah essentially it uses pwm to slow down the motor but it'll take the 24v signal and send it out as pwm at whatever frequency to get the speed you want.

These pumps are pretty loud. At the end of the day its for noise control.
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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

Ok. Today I setup the wiring for the relays that will control the automatic water change pump and the solenoid for my RO. All I have left now is to get the ReefAngel programmed and connect the 5V outputs to the trigger input on the relays. Then the main part of the electronics will be done. I do still have to get the control signal from upstairs connected and the float switch wired up for the ReefAngel's inputs, but that's just splicing wires.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvHLUKTDDv0
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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

Ok i screwed up the relays when i tried to hook up the reef angel dimming ports. Now the red light is stuck on like the trigger is active but the relay is open and the trigger no longer responds. I'm not sure whats going on. I ordered 4 more relays...will try again in a month when they arrive. :(
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Sacohen
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by Sacohen »

I had a similar issue with my 12v relay and it turned out that the power supply was not putting out enough voltage.

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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

Whats weird is that when it was hooked up both relays were coming on at the same time. Something with my wiring may be flawed I don't know. Will see what happens next time. I will try and document the circuit better and get some input.
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Sacohen
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by Sacohen »

Yeah. Let me see the circuit and maybe another set of eyes will help.

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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

Here's the circuit. Lmk what you think. You can watch the video to see the actual wiring job. Hopefully this makes sense.

Image
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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

So just to clarify the IN is connected to dimming ports which are set to analog / 0-5V ports. I am setting the ports to 100% for what should be the 5V trigger.
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Sacohen
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by Sacohen »

Lee;

I can see the sketch on my phone thru Tapatalk, but I can't see it here and it is too small on my phone.
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Sacohen
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by Sacohen »

It looks good to me.

The two 5v things at the top are the RA dimming ports?
Obviously it worked with the 24V triggering the relays, did it ever work with the 5V RA Signal triggering it?
I can't remember are you using the dimming channel to trigger the relay or the ATO ports?

The reason I'm asking is since the dimming channels are sending out 0-5v are you sure the relay is getting the full 5v or if it is less it may not be enough to trigger the relay.

Also (Stupid question, but need to ask) you said the relay has a high and low trigger, are you sure that you switched it over to use the low trigger.

Finally, what happens if there is no load connected, it shouldn't make a difference, but you never know.
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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

Yes, I"m using dimming ports for this. I did not confirm that they are sending out the full 5V. I will be doing a bit more testing next time around. I can set them back to 0-10V and then adjust the output to get to the full 5V if thats an issue.
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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

Yes, I'm positive I moved the jumpers to the low trigger side.

Right now the relay does nothing... just sits there with the lights on. No clicking anymore.. even tried with everything else removed and just plain power. Same with switching back to the high level trigger.
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Sacohen
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by Sacohen »

Yeah, let's see if your getting a full 5V out of the dimming port.
Maybe even try a 5V walwart to make sure the relays will trigger at 5v.
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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

Yeah, that will be the approach moving forward as well. I need to adjust the test code I'm using on the RA so I can measure it easily enough. My main concern was that I was sharing the negative with the 24V PS and was afraid somehow 24V was going back into the RA. But if I don't connect it to that negative, then where else? Unless I don't need it for the trigger... I wish I knew more electronics...
rimai
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by rimai »

I can't see the picture :(
Roberto.
rimai
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by rimai »

I was able to see the picture from the link it was sent to my email though:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/10/bu4ybe7u.jpg
Anyhow, what's DC+?
I think you fried the optical isolator in the relay board if it has one. You can't use the +24 in the right side. The +24 is only supposed to be connected to the left side and should not be connected to RA. That's what I think in my mind, but I would need to see how that relay board works. Do you have schematics?
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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

Yes, that's correct. I don't have schematics, I only have the description from the ebay link which I sent you a while back.

The IN on the relay is either a "High Level" or "Low Level" trigger input. You can see in the video it working fine when set to High and connecting a 24V lead to the relay. But when I switched it to low and connected the dimming wires, nothing was behaving as expected. I was trying to measure things with the multimeter I think when it got fried.
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Sacohen
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by Sacohen »

lnevo wrote: I was trying to measure things with the multimeter I think when it got fried.
Very possible. That's very easy to do if you're no careful with the probes.
rimai
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by rimai »

Ahhh, I just revisited the ebay link and I think your connections are good :)
You need to set the trigger to high.
Roberto.
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Sacohen
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by Sacohen »

Why does he need to set the trigger to high it he is using 5v from the RA dimming module to trigger it?
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lnevo
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Re: 2 RAs in tandem + H2O Automation

Post by lnevo »

rimai wrote:Ahhh, I just revisited the ebay link and I think your connections are good :)
You need to set the trigger to high.
That's one thing the description isn't very clear on as far as which voltage to use for the High/Low triggers...

So to repeat what Sacohen said.. why high?
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