dosing

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nbelohlav
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:46 pm

dosing

Post by nbelohlav »

can someone help me with figuring out how long i need to run my pumps each hour to keep my levels stable. here is what i do know, i have been checking my levels all this week after getting cal, alk and mag up to where i wanted them to be. tonight is my last night and then i will take my starting numbers and minus tonights numbers from then to give me the amount my tank uses in a week. i know that my dosers are supposed to run at .75 ml/s. my reef angel as far as i know can turn them on every 60 minutes or whenever i want and will run for as long as i want. i would like to run the pumps like every hour or two for short periods of time in order to not burn out the pumps too fast and also not dump a ton of cal and alk in in large amounts.

i am here to learn so i am an open book for people with experience to write in and will be checking this thread very often thru out the night and will answer any and all questions that i possibly can. biggest thing that i need help with is the "equation" that is used to figure out how long to run the pumps.

thanks in advance to anyone that can help.
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lnevo
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Re: dosing

Post by lnevo »

Start here:

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/sho ... ost1320389

Once you know how much you want to dose, you need to convert it to minutes by dividing the amount by your rate. Then you convert that to seconds and divide it by the number of intervals to get each dose.

So lets say 30ml per day. With your pump at .75ml/min we get

30ml/day / .75ml/min = 40 min/day

Now we want that in seconds:

40min/day * 60sec = 2400sec/day

If you are going to do once per hour that would be

2400sec/day / 24dose/day = 100 sec/dose

Hope that helps.
nbelohlav
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:46 pm

Re: dosing

Post by nbelohlav »

that gives me alot better idea, ill just have to figure it out for .75 ml/s not .75 ml/m
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nbelohlav
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Re: dosing

Post by nbelohlav »

ok so according to the levels i just took this is where i am at:

calcium: started out at 440PPM and last reading is 410 PPM. according to the calculator on the RA client suite i need to add 102.4 ml to get back to 440PPM

alk: started out at 9.3DKH and last reading is 7.8DKH. according to the same calculator i will need to add 107.1 ml to get back to 9.3DKH

mag: stared out at 1410PPM and last reading is 1320PPM. same calculator says add 725.8ml to get back to 1410.

that seems like alot of mag to me...
do those seem like pretty normal usages for each, i know it varies from tank to tank dependent on what coral you have.

this is where i am going to have a little bit of trouble figuring out how long to run the pumps every hour or two...
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lnevo
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Re: dosing

Post by lnevo »

Go with what divides easier for now. Since the numbers are close to 100 start with that. I would go with 24 doses since it makes things easy. See how things are after week. Each second is going to be .0125ml with this pump you have room to play and don't think this is going to be a set and forget.
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cosmith71
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Location: Oklahoma City

Re: dosing

Post by cosmith71 »

Here's what I use, maybe it will help get you started.

Couple of notes:

I calibrated my pumps so I know exactly how much each dispenses.

I run my alk and cal at the same amount. May change in the future.

I store values in memory locations so I can change them with the Android app. You can hard code them if you like.

Here's the code.

Up top under "Place global variable code here"

Code: Select all

#define Mem_I_Dosage         100
#define Mem_I_Doses          102
#define Mem_I_DoserOffset    104
The amount I want to dose daily is stored in memory location 100. The number of doses is in location 102. The offset from midnight to start the dosing schedule is in 104. I run the alk pump, and then an hour later I run the cal pump. I've always read to allow some mixing time between adding the two so they don't react with each other. I'm currently dosing 100 ml of each daily, divided into 4 doses each.

Down in void loop()

Code: Select all

int Dosage = InternalMemory.read(Mem_I_Dosage);                               // Amount in ml of 2 part to dispense per day
    int Doses = InternalMemory.read(Mem_I_Doses);                                 // Number of doses per day
    int Dispense = Dosage/Doses;                                                  // Amount in ml to dispense per dose
    int DoserOffset = InternalMemory.read(Mem_I_DoserOffset);                     // Offset from midnight to start dosing schedule
    ReefAngel.DosingPumpRepeat(AlkPump, DoserOffset, (1440/Doses), Dispense/0.63);                 // Alk pump runs at 0.63 ml/sec
    ReefAngel.DosingPumpRepeat(CalPump, DoserOffset+60, (1440/Doses), Dispense/0.53);              // Ca+ pump runs at 0.53 ml/sec
    
In your case, if you want it simple to get you started, try this.

Code: Select all

  int Dosage = 100;                                                                // Amount in ml of 2 part to dispense per day
    int Doses = 24;                                                                  // Number of doses per day
    int Dispense = Dosage/Doses;                                                     // Amount in ml to dispense per dose
    ReefAngel.DosingPumpRepeat(AlkPump, 0, (1440/Doses), Dispense/0.75);             // Alk pump runs at 0.75 ml/sec
    ReefAngel.DosingPumpRepeat(CalPump, 30, (1440/Doses), Dispense/0.75);            // Ca+ pump runs at 0.75 ml/sec.  Run 30 minutes after Alk to ensure proper mixing
    
Replace CalPump and AlkPump with the ports your dosing pumps are on. This assumes the pumps are running at 0.75 ml/sec. The offset between the two pumps is 30 minutes, but since you're dispensing such small amounts you could probably lower this to whatever you like.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask questions.

--Colin
nbelohlav
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Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:46 pm

Re: dosing

Post by nbelohlav »

whoa buddy, thats way out of my ball park... this is where i am at right now....

i have to dose 20 seconds a day of alk and cal to maintain the levels i want. i want to split that into dosing ever 6 hrs and if i do that i would be dosing for 3.3333333 seconds every 6 hours... thats what i have come up with so far. of course a lapse of time between the two so they dont cause issues with one another.

when you do the coding colin do you store it internally? is that how i would be able to change it from my andriod and from the controller?
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cosmith71
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Location: Oklahoma City

Re: dosing

Post by cosmith71 »

You can't change the internal memory locations (easily) from the controller. I use the Android app.

For 20 seconds a day spread over four doses (one every six hours) you would use this:

Code: Select all

ReefAngel.DosingPumpRepeat(AlkPump, 0, 360, 3);               // Dose for 3 seconds every 360 minutes (6 hours)
ReefAngel.DosingPumpRepeat(CalPump, 30, 360, 3);                  // Dose for 3 seconds every 360 minutes (6 hours) with a 30 minute offset from the other pump
You can't do 3.33 seconds, has to be a whole number.

But this is only about 15 ml a day. Didn't you want to be around 100 ml a day?

--Colin
nbelohlav
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Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:46 pm

Re: dosing

Post by nbelohlav »

i messed up my calculations and went back and redid them and i will have to dose 44 ml a day of cal with i will have to run for a total of a 1 minute a day or 10 seconds every 6 hrs. and for alk i will need 22 ml a day for 30 total seconds a day or 5 seconds ever 6 hrs. and mag will be done manually till i get another doser.
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lnevo
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Re: dosing

Post by lnevo »

Your calculations still seem pretty off based on what you initially reported. Plus there is no way you should be dosing 2x the cal from your alk. You should try and balance those first or recheck your numbers because they should be dosed evenly.
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lnevo
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Re: dosing

Post by lnevo »

nbelohlav wrote:i messed up my calculations and went back and redid them and i will have to dose 44 ml a day of cal with i will have to run for a total of a 1 minute a day or 10 seconds every 6 hrs. and for alk i will need 22 ml a day for 30 total seconds a day or 5 seconds ever 6 hrs. and mag will be done manually till i get another doser.
44ml/day = 58.66 minutes /day based on .75ml/minute

That would be 3520 seconds per day or 880 seconds 4 times a day if every 6 hours...


I *think* you did not convert your minutes to seconds and just called it seconds :)
nbelohlav
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:46 pm

Re: dosing

Post by nbelohlav »

im bring both alk and cal back up today and tomorrow since i have to work tonight... ill check them again tomorrow and see where i am at... this is more of a pain then i thought that it was gonna be
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nbelohlav
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Re: dosing

Post by nbelohlav »

lnevo wrote:
nbelohlav wrote:i messed up my calculations and went back and redid them and i will have to dose 44 ml a day of cal with i will have to run for a total of a 1 minute a day or 10 seconds every 6 hrs. and for alk i will need 22 ml a day for 30 total seconds a day or 5 seconds ever 6 hrs. and mag will be done manually till i get another doser.
44ml/day = 58.66 minutes /day based on .75ml/minute

That would be 3520 seconds per day or 880 seconds 4 times a day if every 6 hours...


I *think* you did not convert your minutes to seconds and just called it seconds :)
my dosing pumps run at .75ml/sec not .75 ml/min
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lnevo
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Re: dosing

Post by lnevo »

.75ml/sec seems very fast. The BRS doser is 1.1ml/minute but I see the RA dosing pump is .75ml/sec also...

The best thing to do also since every pump and deployment is different would be to calibrate it to get the actual rate.

Pick a container that you can dose into and run the pump for 10 minutes. Measure the amount that comes out and divide it by 10 to get per minute or by 600 to get per second.

You could also do it by the reverse as well and choose a container with a known volume. Time how long it takes to get to that amount.

If you like... I've done a lot of the work to automate this and then let you dose by volume and also to calibrate your pumps. I would need to assist in getting it running with your INO file, but it would be a good test. You'd be a bit of a guinea pig but it would make this extremely easy I think for you. All you would have to do is tell your RA how many ml you want and it would do the rest.

Take a look at this thread starting at this post. http://forum.reefangel.com/viewtopic.php?p=26793#p26793

If this is something your interested in, it would basically convert your RA into something better than a Bubble Magus Triple Doser :)
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