Verify my parts list before buying?

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AlanM
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Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by AlanM »

I'm looking to switch from Apex to Reef Angel. Since the particulars are a bit different I'm having trouble getting my head around just what modules I need, so I thought I'd post up here. lnevo has been helping me on our board forum in private messages, but at some point I need to stop buggin him about it and get more people answering my questions to make sure I have it right.

I need to control:

2 Tunze 6095s (I have the Apex cables that go to them)
2 Jebao WP10s (I ordered some Apex cables from some guy on RC)
- These four powerheads are about 25 feet away from my sump and upstairs. So I'd need long cables to talk to them. Everything else would go down near the sump.

6 channels of Meanwell LDD dimmers

1 Avast skimmate locker to shut off the skimmer. Currently I have this going to an IO port with an Avast pressure switch to the IO connector on the Apex. Maybe I'd just get a multi-water-level module if using reef angel?

I also have an Avast Deluxe ATO which has the pressure switch and relay integrated into a peristaltic pump. If I got the multi-water-level module I could use the same pressure sensor and hardware the pump on and control it from the RA relay box, I think, right?

Other than that, I don't do anything special. I'll probably get an extra relay box for a total of two of those and also a wireless connector.

My main question would be the strategy for what to order, analog, pwm, etc for the 4 power heads and 6 LDDs given the other inputs I'll have. I know some RA inputs can be converted to outputs and such so I can't get my head around if a single dimming module combined with the inputs/outputs that come with the head unit and relay boxes would cover me or not.

Also, I have everything hooked up to the Apex with RJ45 connectors I wired myself, so if the Reef Angel needs special connectors that aren't easily purchasable I guess I'd need to get those.

So what should I put in my cart?

At the moment I have:
Reef Angel plus controller with PWM
Extra Relay box
Wireless connector
Expansion module
Dimming module
Multi-sensor module

would this cover me to do 2 channels of Tunze, 2 channels of Jebao WP10, and 6 channels of Meanwell LDDs?

Also, an orthogonal question, has anyone hooked up the 12 bit 16 channel PWM shield to a reef angel? I am currently playing with a Storm X lighting controller, but am unhappy that it doesn't integrate into anything.
rimai
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by rimai »

I've had a couple users request a 16 channel custom dimming module for their LDD drivers. So, if you would like one of those too, PM me.
You can connect your LDD drivers and Jebao pumps to it.
Roberto.
AlanM
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by AlanM »

Great, will do that.
howaboutme
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by howaboutme »

Alan! I was wondering when you would cross over....:)

If you haven't covered this already w/ Lee over PM or anyone else, I'll try to explain what little knowledge I have gained from playing and learning the last few months...

RA doesn't use the RJ45 connectors. The RC guy (I believe) created the Jebao cables by buying the RA Jebao cable and splicing the ends for the RJ45. I guess in theory you can redo that but not sure if Roberto sells just the connectors or you may be able to buy it at Radio Shack. If you buy new the Jebao cables only show up in the "order" window. You have 2 dimming modules in each relay box. As an example, you can use them for your 4 pumps. Then you have your 6 channel dimming module for your lights. Or you can do a custom module like Roberto mentioned.

Each head unit has and ATO high and an ATO low. You can use the low for the Avast ATO pressure sensor and the ATO high for the skimmate locker. You will need to buy the Avast RA connection as the current connection you have won't work. That's the question I had for Justin recently...and was non too pleased to hear that each sensor is almost the cost of a new ATO so I am holding off on that. So once you connect the ATO sensor in, you plug your pump into one of the outlets of the relay box. Then you can also set an override time out in case the sensor screws up.

I'm not sure about the 25 feet of cabling. Maybe Roberto can mod it for you or you can probably do it yourself since you're pretty handy....

If anything, this was a bump. Good luck.
Jack
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lnevo
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by lnevo »

Alan and I have been discussing this for a bit.. It's finally about time :)

Just want to correct a few mistakes above....

First off the relay boxes do have dimming ports, but only the 1st relay box has ACTIVE dimming ports.

Secondly, from what I got from Alan his skimmate locker has the apex connector so he would just need the dimming wire lead to go to one of the ATO switches.
rimai
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by rimai »

You can easily extend the jebao cable with any wire.
Roberto.
howaboutme
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by howaboutme »

Ah...thanks for that. I would never have known for myself. That's definitely not a question I would have asked before I think about pulling the trigger for a 2nd relay.. So he needs the custom dimming mod or 2 typical dimming modules.

Re: locker pressure sensor. I thought the Avast pressure sensor he is using is the same as the ATO pressure sensor. If so, the Apex connector at the end of the pressure sensor has to connect to the RA...I asked a similar question on WAMAS to Avast and you chimed in later. Or is the Apex connector the same as the RA connector? Here is the product:

http://www.avastmarine.com/ssc/do/produ ... ure-Switch

There's 2 distinct options for Neptune and RA...

Correct me if I am wrong, I may be mistaken. Thanks!
Jack
rimai
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by rimai »

You can just chop the connector and use one of the RA connectors. Look for dimming port lead wire in the webstore.
Roberto.
howaboutme
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by howaboutme »

Ah. Got it! thank you!
Jack
AlanM
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by AlanM »

Hi Jack and Lee, thanks for chiming in. I've been pondering RA for quite a while and the past week's DST problems with Apex and my frustration with getting it to do what I want (and totally opaque customer support) may have pushed me to make the jump.

Nice, this thread went on without me answering questions I have that I'd been pinging back and forth with Lee and Roberto over PMs.

So if I had a second relay box I can't use the dimming ports on that one. That answers one followup question I pm'd to Roberto.

Lee had said that the float switch inputs on the RA head units could be converted into outputs in some way? What is the limitation on that?

Roberto sorted me out that the Jebaos need 5V analog and his Jebao cable is a low-pass filter integrated that takes 5V PWM and converts it into a 0-5V analog DC voltage. Or else I could use a 5V analog outlet that already exists.

I'm not too worried about the connectors all being correct. As long as splicing things is OK I can probably get the right ends for whatever cables are needed.

I also have 4-pin fans on my lights which use PWM to ramp up and down with I'd like to control, so I'd likely need the custom PWM module anyway because that would put me at needing two 10V analogs (Tunze), two 5V analogs (Jebao), six 5V PWM (LDDs), and one 5V 25kHz (I think) PWM for fans.
howaboutme
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by howaboutme »

Alan. Are you building new lights or is the one you're selling on wamas not over your DT anyways?
Jack
AlanM
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by AlanM »

howaboutme wrote:Alan. Are you building new lights or is the one you're selling on wamas not over your DT anyways?
I would be controlling my current lights, that I'd keep instead of selling, with ReefAngel. I don't know how much competitor talk is allowed on these forums, but I put them up for sale for control issues with the Apex, not because they don't work well to light up my corals.

If my lights sold, which they don't show signs of doing, I'd possibly buy a couple Radions because of the good user interface. I tried out a Storm X lighting controller, which I like a lot, which includes things like 16 channels of 12-bit PWM for dimming, Lat/Long defined sunrise/sunset, clouds, lightning, etc.

The disadvantage of Storm X is that it isn't connected to anything so I have to be standing there turning the knob.

The disadvantage of keeping them on the Apex, frankly, is the terrible Outlet-Profile programming regime where you have to change the same thing in 4 different places in order to make a change in lighting schedule. Another disadvantage is the 10V analog to 5V PWM conversion that I do. I use a custom Arduino board to do it, but sampling the 100 channel analog signal and mapping into 8-bit PWM is jittery at low dimming levels so they flicker. I could a whole bunch of random addition and averaging to try to smooth it, but haven't gotten around to figuring out the math.

With Reef Angel I'd get a few big wins for not much cost because I'd probably pass my current controller over to someone else for nearly what I spend at Reef Angel. I'd be able to do more than Ramp profiles with my powerheads. Functions are built in to make them do everything a Vortech can do.

I'd also get PWM control over the lights using functions that I can program to do whatever I want. If I wanted the lights to dim via Bessel fuctions or Airy functions, I could do that. So I'd get nice steady control over my LDDs all the way down to 0 which would only be limited by what I could whip up in Arduino.

I'd also be able to integrate a bunch of standalone things I have now, like my ATO pressure switch, into the controller and with the combo of the 120V relay box and the 12V relay module maybe even control RO/DI refills, new salt water fills, and water changes.
howaboutme
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by howaboutme »

Very exciting plans! Looking forward to your updates in the future as I know you will. :)
Jack
AlanM
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by AlanM »

howaboutme wrote:Very exciting plans! Looking forward to your updates in the future as I know you will. :)
Haha, I know I will too. If I start growing way more cyano I'm going to blame it on the ReefAngel!
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lnevo
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by lnevo »

We need you on this forum Alan!!! If only to explain what Bessel and Airy dimming functions are!!!
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lnevo
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by lnevo »

howaboutme wrote:Ah. Got it! thank you!
I was under the assumption that you had the full ATO model with the switched outlet. That one was a bit more involved vs the apex integrated model that just has the switch piece.
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heatdissipation
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by heatdissipation »

Alan. I was in the same boat as you, except for owning an apex. I looked into the but knew from the beginning it wasn't for me. I used the stormx controller also, I filled all sixteen channels on it with my lights. But I didn't like the fact that it was a standalone unit. I ordered the RA plus. I have it running everything but my lights right now, Roberto made me a sixteen channel custom board for my lights. It should be delivered tomorrow along with a few other things. I also have the standard six channel dimming expansion module that I am using to control two wp60 and two wp 40. I plan to use integrate pwm fan control soon as I have 22 total pwm controllable outlets. The possibilities are endless but my knowledge is limited. All I do is study code and anything RA related. My wife thinks I am crazy
howaboutme
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by howaboutme »

lnevo wrote:We need you on this forum Alan!!! If only to explain what Bessel and Airy dimming functions are!!!
Yes! It was meant to be. Who else can be famous because of his D120 hack even before he had the RA!
lnevo wrote:I was under the assumption that you had the full ATO model with the switched outlet. That one was a bit more involved vs the apex integrated model that just has the switch piece.
I have the full ATO model. The differences are on how the pressure sensor box terminates. It's a bit confusing unless you have it. We're all talking the same, just semantics specific to Avast. I will eventually get it hooked up to the RA but I have other more pressing stuff to play w/ first...
Jack
AlanM
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by AlanM »

lnevo wrote:
howaboutme wrote:Ah. Got it! thank you!
I was under the assumption that you had the full ATO model with the switched outlet. That one was a bit more involved vs the apex integrated model that just has the switch piece.
I have the Deluxe ATO which apparently is no longer offered. It has a 12V power supply wall wart, a pressure tube and a black box that houses the pressure switch and a peristaltic pump. So it's totally self contained. Just plug it in, plumb it, and drop the pressure tube sensor into the sump at the right height.

One criticism of it was that it was super loud, which is probably why they switched it up and now have a 120V one that you have to switch on and off yourself and buy the sensor separately.
AlanM
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by AlanM »

heatdissipation wrote:Alan. I was in the same boat as you, except for owning an apex. I looked into the but knew from the beginning it wasn't for me. I used the stormx controller also, I filled all sixteen channels on it with my lights. But I didn't like the fact that it was a standalone unit. I ordered the RA plus. I have it running everything but my lights right now, Roberto made me a sixteen channel custom board for my lights. It should be delivered tomorrow along with a few other things. I also have the standard six channel dimming expansion module that I am using to control two wp60 and two wp 40. I plan to use integrate pwm fan control soon as I have 22 total pwm controllable outlets. The possibilities are endless but my knowledge is limited. All I do is study code and anything RA related. My wife thinks I am crazy
Sounds great. I'm also ordering the 16 channel one from Roberto. Very reasonable price for it. I have only 6 channels of lights, but with those, 2 tunzes, 2 jebaos, and a fan I'd be just over what I could do for the 6 channel dimmer, plus two on a relay box, plus two on the ATO ports. With the 16 channel PWM module I will have piles of PWM to talk to and will get an analog relay box for the Tunzes and use the Jebao cables from the PWM module to run those (which apparently integrate a low pass filter to convert the 5V pwm into 5V analog that Jebao wants).
AlanM
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by AlanM »

howaboutme wrote:
lnevo wrote:We need you on this forum Alan!!! If only to explain what Bessel and Airy dimming functions are!!!
Yes! It was meant to be. Who else can be famous because of his D120 hack even before he had the RA!
Did people here actually start using their RA to control the d120s? You know I never really used mine to control it aside from posting those videos on youtube showing that it worked.

For a quick math lesson: Bessel functions are related to flow in cylindrical geometry (at least that's how I used them in the past) and Airy functions have to do with those interference patterns you might have seen in physics class which is supposed to prove to you that light is both a particle and a wave.

I said it wrong, actually, meant to say I could run the pumps, not lights, as Bessel or Airy functions, because they are functions that are kind of like waves that damp down and back up if you reverse them. So I'd have a wave with opposing powerheads that decreases in magnitude over some period of time until it's still and then starts getting stronger again. Like an oscillation inside an envelope that grows and shrinks.
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lnevo
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by lnevo »

Ooh sounds like it would integrate well with my tidal simulation code. Right now I just incorporate the effect on the tidal strength based on moonphase but would like some cool oscillation pattern to manage tide in/out
AlanM
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by AlanM »

lnevo wrote:Ooh sounds like it would integrate well with my tidal simulation code. Right now I just incorporate the effect on the tidal strength based on moonphase but would like some cool oscillation pattern to manage tide in/out
Maybe, I could be remembering them wrong though. Heh. Probably easier ways of doing it.
howaboutme
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Re: Verify my parts list before buying?

Post by howaboutme »

AlanM wrote:
howaboutme wrote:
lnevo wrote:We need you on this forum Alan!!! If only to explain what Bessel and Airy dimming functions are!!!
Yes! It was meant to be. Who else can be famous because of his D120 hack even before he had the RA!
Did people here actually start using their RA to control the d120s? You know I never really used mine to control it aside from posting those videos on youtube showing that it worked.

For a quick math lesson: Bessel functions are related to flow in cylindrical geometry (at least that's how I used them in the past) and Airy functions have to do with those interference patterns you might have seen in physics class which is supposed to prove to you that light is both a particle and a wave.

I said it wrong, actually, meant to say I could run the pumps, not lights, as Bessel or Airy functions, because they are functions that are kind of like waves that damp down and back up if you reverse them. So I'd have a wave with opposing powerheads that decreases in magnitude over some period of time until it's still and then starts getting stronger again. Like an oscillation inside an envelope that grows and shrinks.
Here:

http://forum.reefangel.com/viewtopic.php?t=3541

And your wamas thread was the first link...
Jack
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