Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Basic / Standard Reef Angel hardware
rimai
Posts: 12881
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:47 pm

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by rimai »

Try this:
Get a 12VDC power supply and check the voltage you get from the GND in reference to your wall outlet Ground.
Roberto.
meadowsad
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:56 am

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by meadowsad »

I only had a 19.5VDC power supply. I tested that and it tested at 19.6V. I'm not too concerned with the voltage really it is more the current. The voltage doesn't have a path out of the tank until I stick my hand, or a grounding probe in it. This current goes away, or is at least reduced, when the ReefAngel is removed from the system.
rimai
Posts: 12881
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:47 pm

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by rimai »

Do you have ph reading problems?
Roberto.
meadowsad
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:56 am

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by meadowsad »

So I have done A LOT of research regarding stray voltage and the aquarium. I have determined that all my devices put SOME current in to the water, the biggest culprits being ungrounded pumps like the power heads and the skimmer. The biggest culprit is still the Reef Angel, when it is turned on the voltage in the tank goes from 32v up to 47v which is a bigger jump than any other single device.

I tested this by plugging in all my equipment in to a power strip leaving the Reef Angel unplugged, the voltage was a steady 32v. As soon as I plugged in the Reef Angel(separate wall outlet) and hooked up the temp probes, pH probe and float switches the voltage went to 47v-50v.

As a test I put on my shoes and stuck my hand in the tank, no tingle on my fingers. I took my shoes off and I can feel the tingle on my fingers.

So everything I read says the tank has the potential to pass 50v of electricity to ground or through me. However current only flows when there is a grounding probe in the tank or I stick my hand in the water. If the tank isn't grounded it is much like a bird sitting on a power line.

So while it isn't ideal that the Reef Angel adds 15v of electricity to the tank it shouldn't be a problem for the inhabitants.
rimai
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:47 pm

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by rimai »

Does the pH reading change when you place the grounding probe in the tank?
Roberto.
Gugs Jr
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:49 pm

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by Gugs Jr »

I'm following along since I'm having the same issues. I've lost a few fish to ich and it only happened after installing my RA and noticing the stray voltage.

I'm thinking the stray voltage is enough to cause the ich to appear. Since I've had most of the fish I've lost for over 2 years.
meadowsad
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:56 am

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by meadowsad »

When I put the grounding probe in the tank the pH reading doesn't seem to be effected.
rimai
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:47 pm

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by rimai »

That's so weird. When people have stray voltage problems, the pH probe gets wacky readings.
What do you get if you measure your Neutral and Ground in the wall outlet?
Roberto.
meadowsad
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:56 am

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by meadowsad »

When I checked the ground wire I did get a reading of 1v. The multimeter read 1 just in open air so not sure if that has to do with humidity or not. I have not checked the neutral wire, I won't be able to do that until Sunday.

One thing I noticed is that when I have everything plugged in and turned off I get a reading of 8-11v. If I flip the breaker .8v. I went through and unplugged everything from all the outlets and flipped the breaker on and the reading went to 8v-11v. So something may be a bit goofy in my apartments wiring. Still boggles my mind why sticking a pH probe in an glass of water by itself puts out 47v.
Gugs Jr
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:49 pm

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by Gugs Jr »

rimai wrote:That's so weird. When people have stray voltage problems, the pH probe gets wacky readings.
What do you get if you measure your Neutral and Ground in the wall outlet?
My pH readings are fine and Im still having this issue. Same as meadows even when everything is unplugged.

Im in an apartment as well. I know where my tank is plugged in is hooked up to outlets in the kitchen.
Gugs Jr
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:49 pm

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by Gugs Jr »

Anyone have any luck figuring this out?
meadowsad
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:56 am

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by meadowsad »

Gugs Jr,

My tank is also plugged in to the same circuit as one of the kitchen outlets. However it isn't the same as the appliances.

I just ignored it for now... Everything I read said it isn't to much of an issue unless you ground the tank, then the voltage has somewhere to go. Wasn't exactly the answer I was looking for but I can't do a whole lot to the wiring in my apartment either.
Gugs Jr
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:49 pm

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by Gugs Jr »

meadowsad wrote:Gugs Jr,

My tank is also plugged in to the same circuit as one of the kitchen outlets. However it isn't the same as the appliances.

I just ignored it for now... Everything I read said it isn't to much of an issue unless you ground the tank, then the voltage has somewhere to go. Wasn't exactly the answer I was looking for but I can't do a whole lot to the wiring in my apartment either.

Right now I just have my pH probe unplugged which is a waste. Since everything else works with the reef angel.

I was wondering if a different power strip would work.
Damion
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:46 am

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by Damion »

Is there an RA Stray voltage probe?

If not here's an example...

http://puratek.com/products/insight-mon ... tage-probe
wolffman64
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:38 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by wolffman64 »

Hi,
Do you live outside the US, and are using the plug adapters for the relay unit?
ahmedess
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 2:29 pm

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by ahmedess »

for those who are experiencing stray voltage problem,

Do you have Meanwell dimmable LED drivers? and do you have them connected to the relay box (power and dimming signal cables) during testing for stray voltage ?

i'm experiencing the same issue and i have found out that somehow through the pwm signal cables running from the drivers to the relay box there is a current that runs from the drivers to the reefangel controller then to the tank through the pH probe.

the way I have figured this out is using a multimeter. I disconnected everything from the tank and started by plugging each item on its own and testing the potential difference between the tank and the ground.

it turns out that when the drivers are ON the potential difference between the tank and ground increases by around 50 VAC and the only connection between the drivers and the tank is through the pH probe. remove the probe and the 50 VAC goes away, turn off the drivers and the 50 VAC goes away so my conclusion is that there's a current that flows from the drivers through the Reefangel to the probe and into the tank.

Is there any possible way to block the current from flowing from the drivers to the RA?
meadowsad
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:56 am

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by meadowsad »

During my testing I took the RA head unit and a relay box to another outlet away from the fish tank. Turned it on and hooked ONLY the PH probe to the head unit and put it in a glass of water. I then used a multimeter to test the voltage and it read 47v.
SlimyEel
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:36 pm

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by SlimyEel »

I know this is a little over a month old, but were you able to come up with a solution?


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Themaddhatter
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:35 pm
Location: Guelph, Ontario

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by Themaddhatter »

Hi there, I just hooked up my reef angel plus last night and immediately noticed a strong tingling when my hand was in the sump. All other equipment has been running for months w/o issue. I'll try detaching the pH probe tonight and check with a multimeter. Anyone find a solution for this yet?
DmnYnkee
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:45 am
Location: Clermont, Florida

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by DmnYnkee »

I am having the same issue. 40v-42v in my tank. I unplug the bnc on the Ph probe, and it drops to 26v in tank. Ph probe by itself in a cup of tank water measures 46v. Temp probe in cup of water measures 9.6v, but has no effect on readings from tank in, or out of the water.

Turning off pumps, lights, heaters, unplugging floats, and temp sensors resulted in very minimal change (less than 4v).

When I disconnect the bus connector from the RA head unit, the volts drop to ~10v.

Now, when the ground probe is plugged in, tank voltage drops to .006v, but Ph drops by about .05.

This leaves me with several questions. First, is my Ph probe bad (have new one on the way, and will test to answer this), second, do I leave the ground probe in my system, or is it going to do more harm than good by allowing the current to flow? Third, has anyone moved their head unit, relay box, etc away from the tank by a few feet, and had it make any difference on stray voltage in their tanks?

I am perplexed.
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ecam
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:27 am

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by ecam »

Hey guys sorry to resurrect this. But I just had an electrician tell me that two of my reef angel boxes have properly lost their insulation properties and are leaking voltage and causing my gfi to trip.

I did the same test where I stuck the black voltmeter piece into ground and the red into the water. I got 47 volts. I unplugged everything one by one with no change to 47 until I unplugged the box itself and voltage went to zero. I grabbed another relay box and replaced and the voltage went to zero. No leak. So it was isolated down to the box itself.

I have a similar problem with my other reef angel. But I don't have another box to test.

Could the box really be the prophl and if so can it be repaired ?

@rimai @lenevo
ecam
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:27 am

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by ecam »

Can I please get a reply on this from the ra guru.

My problem is exactly as described in this entry. But there is no resolution. I still have the voltage in tank and my gfi keeps tripping. Help please
rimai
Posts: 12881
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:47 pm

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by rimai »

The replay box has a floating DC power supply, which means it is not grounded to earth.
So, measuring voltages with reference to earth may yield different results depending on which power supply you are measuring.
Roberto.
tech9
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:50 pm

Re: Stray Voltage - Nothing Plugged In except pH probe.

Post by tech9 »

I am having the same issue. Unplugged everything but the PH probe, and getting 10V with a multi meter in the tank. Unplugged less than 1v. You can feel it when you stick your hand in the tank. I have a calcium reactor hooked up and NEED the ph probe. I measured this from a relay outlet ground, to the tank with the red probe.

I'm getting decent PH readings, at least I think I am. I have also tried a new ph probe with same results.
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