Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Basic / Standard Reef Angel hardware
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fckgravity
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:11 am

Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by fckgravity »

Im not sure why and luckily i was home but the heater relay turned on and didnt turn off for about 3 hours. The temperature in the tank went up a couple degrees so hopefully everything survives

This unit has been running over a year and i havent had any other issues or changed the code. The odd thing is the system recorded everything so there wasnt an issue with the temp prob i dont think. Please help im worried to leave now.
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rimai
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:47 pm

Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by rimai »

Did you see that the heater was indeed on?
According to your log, the heater was off.
It was a pretty steep rise. How much water and what heater do you have?
Your temperature rose by 4 degrees in 10 minutes.
http://forum.reefangel.com/status/chart ... &filter=t1
218 is when the heater was on at 8:06pm and 206 is when the heater was off at 8:11pm.
Then at 8:16, it was still off and the temperature was still rising and topped 81.8.
Roberto.
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lnevo
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by lnevo »

How are you calling the heater in your code. What's the values set in internal memory. Does your heater have it's own thermostat? That may have died and you may need to tighten up your parameters. Could be many things. I'd look to replace the heater soon. Temp probe looks fine but we need to see your settings. Does the relay turn on/off properly?
fckgravity
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:11 am

Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by fckgravity »

Let me start with Thank you for the reply,

Rimai:

I did not see if the heater was on during the this time I only noticed because the Cooling fan kicked on at 9:40ish and it never turns on but at that point the heater was off. It must have been on though since the ambient temperature was 72, no lights were on and my Kill A Watt meter said all pumps in total on the tank were pulling 41 watts.

Can you explain to me how to read the log please, from what I see on the portal relay chart and the attached image it turned on at around 5:55 and turned off at around 9:41.
On the link you attached of my webchart it shows no temperature information exactly for that time period if you hover over the red line. Seemingly saying there was no temperature information being provided to the unit so it stayed in the on position.

The tank is 52G net volume and has a 150W heater on it.

The temperature was double checked with 1 digital thermometer and 1 analog, they both showed the actual rise in temperature above normal of around 2 degree's but I dont know how long exactly that took I only checked after the issue.

Lnevo:

All of the code was done using the Wizard and the iphone app with no custom code.

The heater does have its own thermostat which is set to 83 degree (which I have now lowered and explains the crazy temperature fluctuation on my webchart around 10:30 as I was testing in a seperate plastic bucket) .

Can you explain why the heater thermostat would matter if power to the heater is temperature controlled though RA relay?I would think the thermostat would only matter if it was set to low and the relay turns on but the heater does not.

The heater is a newly replaced one month old Eheim Jager.

The relay seems to function properly once I saw the problem and checked. During the time period of the heating event I do not know though.


Again thank you for the assistance.
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lnevo
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by lnevo »

Can you paste the relevant heater code from the wizard output... just need to confirm a few things.

The heater thermostat is important because it provides a backup. You always want to have either the RA doing the override or the heater itself. This way if one does get messed up you have some redundancy. Some people set their heater thermostat and then have RA shut off if it goes over and some have RA control completely and then have heater a slight bit higher as you did. Either way is good, both should try and stay within your limits though.

You also have the overheat status that you could trigger some ports to shutoff... heater, lights, some pumps... whatever you think would help the situation, but that would be something else that could take action to avoid the situation.
fckgravity
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by fckgravity »

Sorry I cant get the code right now as I am at work but I will when I get home.

I understand the thermostat as a backup I was just confused why that would matter but as I didnt explain to you how I was using the system I understand now.

I do have my overheats sets but I will tighten up the constraint from the heater off temperature. Right now its kind of set for a catastrophic situation.

Can you explain to me why there is no temperature information in the webchart for the incidence time period or is that why you will need the code?
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lnevo
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by lnevo »

Ok, I see the problem. You're temp probe must have been reporting 0 during that time. As you have relay status for those duration but no temp, the only answer was that temp was responding as 0 and you're heater was turned on because it's less than your on temperature.

Roberto, don't we ignore 0 though in the heater functions?

gravity, I think this is the situation where we need the heater thermostat to back up the RA.
rimai
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by rimai »

I don't think the probe had anything to do with it.
I can't see how a 150W heater can heat up that much water in 10 minutes.
I also have the same volume and my heater takes a couple hours to heat up 1 degree.
On top of that, you lowered it by 4 degrees in 5 minutes. That's almost impossible without some really heavy duty chiller for that amount of water.
So, I'm very confused how you got these numbers.
This is what I see:
Your heater is on port 5.
Chiller fan is on port 3

8:06pm - T1=77.0 and heater is on and chiller fan is off.
218 decimal is 11011010 in binary
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8:11pm - T1=79.3 and heater is off and chiller fan is on.
206 decimal is 11001110 in binary
2.png
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8:16pm - T1=81.8 and heater is off and chiller fan is on.
206 decimal is 11001110 in binary
3.png
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8:21pm - T1=77.7 and heater is on and chiller fan is off.
218 decimal is 11011010 in binary
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Roberto.
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lnevo
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by lnevo »

Roberto, I'm getting blank's for Temp between the time the heater was on 5:55 to 9:41
temp.jpg
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rimai
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by rimai »

Are you using the link I posted?
Roberto.
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lnevo
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by lnevo »

Yes, are you? :)
rimai
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by rimai »

Doesn't make sense.... lol
Can you try a different browser?
Roberto.
fckgravity
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by fckgravity »

I am getting nothing either for chrome or IE, In the graph link, in my app also the time scale on the bottom jumps from 5:55 to 9:40. and there is a two degree swing.

Well from what I have checked manually with a thermometer and what I can see on the app is the tank did go up 2 degrees over its normal operating temperature. I definetly agree with you rimai If the tank had heated up 4 degrees in ten minutes assuming a specific heat capicity of seawater that would have taken something around a 3 kw heater .

But If the heater was on for the 3+ hours its saying on my graph it would take a 150w heater over 2 hours to heat up the tank 2 degrees F, taking into account all the thermal losses its believable it could take 3+ hours.

There is no possible way like you said it cooled that fast either, plus I don't have a chiller just a fan lol
rimai
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by rimai »

Ahh... I think it is the time difference.
I'm on PDT, so 9:41 is showing to me as 6:41.
If I decrease 3 hours, I see no temp readings from 2:55 to 6:41, which is what you are mentioning.
So, I was looking at the steep increase showing in your side starting at 11:06.
I'm assuming this is not the right part that you are talking about then, is it?
Roberto.
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lnevo
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by lnevo »

Time zone would make all the difference. Yes that's where his gap is. My suspicion is that temp probe failed to get a reading during that time causing the heater to go on if it were reading 0. Overall RA did the right thing, but I think maybe we should look at some other error conditions

1) Not report 0 if probe is not getting reading properly (not sure if this is possible but a NULL value would let us differentiate between 0 degrees and probe not connected)
2) Flag a Temp alert if probe reads 0
3) Not engage the standard heater function if the probe is reading 0 - not sure how I like this or not...

Gravity.. also make sure you have your temp alarms in the portal setup. Aside from tightening your constraints, if you have a similar issue and get an alert that temp is high or low, you could manually override the port.

Overall, I think the root cause is solved, just figuring out the best way to remediate in the future.
fckgravity
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:11 am

Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by fckgravity »

#include <ReefAngel_Features.h>
#include <Globals.h>
#include <RA_Wifi.h>
#include <Wire.h>
#include <OneWire.h>
#include <Time.h>
#include <DS1307RTC.h>
#include <InternalEEPROM.h>
#include <RA_NokiaLCD.h>
#include <RA_ATO.h>
#include <RA_Joystick.h>
#include <LED.h>
#include <RA_TempSensor.h>
#include <Relay.h>
#include <RA_PWM.h>
#include <Timer.h>
#include <Memory.h>
#include <InternalEEPROM.h>
#include <RA_Colors.h>
#include <RA_CustomColors.h>
#include <Salinity.h>
#include <RF.h>
#include <IO.h>
#include <ORP.h>
#include <AI.h>
#include <PH.h>
#include <WaterLevel.h>
#include <Humidity.h>
#include <DCPump.h>
#include <PAR.h>
#include <ReefAngel.h>

////// Place global variable code below here


////// Place global variable code above here


void setup()
{
    // This must be the first line
    ReefAngel.Init(); //Initialize controller
    ReefAngel.Use2014Screen(); // Let's use 2014 Screen
    // Ports toggled in Feeding Mode
    ReefAngel.FeedingModePorts = Port2Bit | Port4Bit | Port6Bit | Port7Bit | Port8Bit;
    // Ports toggled in Water Change Mode
    ReefAngel.WaterChangePorts = Port2Bit | Port4Bit | Port6Bit | Port7Bit | Port8Bit;
    // Ports toggled when Lights On / Off menu entry selected
    ReefAngel.LightsOnPorts = Port1Bit;
    // Ports turned off when Overheat temperature exceeded
    ReefAngel.OverheatShutoffPorts = 0;
    // Use T1 probe as temperature and overheat functions
    ReefAngel.TempProbe = T1_PROBE;
    ReefAngel.OverheatProbe = T1_PROBE;

    // Feeeding and Water Change mode speed
    ReefAngel.DCPump.FeedingSpeed=0;
    ReefAngel.DCPump.WaterChangeSpeed=0;


    // Ports that are always on
    ReefAngel.Relay.On( Port2 );
    ReefAngel.Relay.On( Port7 );
    ReefAngel.Relay.On( Port8 );

    ////// Place additional initialization code below here
    

    ////// Place additional initialization code above here
}

void loop()
{
    ReefAngel.DayLights( Port1 );
    ReefAngel.StandardFan( Port3 );
    ReefAngel.Relay.DelayedOn( Port4 );
    ReefAngel.StandardHeater( Port5 );
    ReefAngel.SingleATOLow( Port6 );
    ReefAngel.PWM.Channel0PWMParabola();
    ReefAngel.PWM.Channel1PWMParabola();
    ReefAngel.PWM.Channel2PWMParabola();
    ReefAngel.PWM.Channel3PWMParabola();
    ReefAngel.PWM.Channel4PWMParabola();
    ReefAngel.PWM.Channel5PWMParabola();
    ReefAngel.DCPump.UseMemory = true;
    ReefAngel.DCPump.DaylightChannel = Sync;
    ReefAngel.DCPump.ActinicChannel = AntiSync;
    ReefAngel.DCPump.ExpansionChannel[0] = None;
    ReefAngel.DCPump.ExpansionChannel[1] = None;
    ReefAngel.DCPump.ExpansionChannel[2] = None;
    ReefAngel.DCPump.ExpansionChannel[3] = None;
    ReefAngel.DCPump.ExpansionChannel[4] = None;
    ReefAngel.DCPump.ExpansionChannel[5] = None;
    ////// Place your custom code below here
   

    ////// Place your custom code above here

    // This should always be the last line
    ReefAngel.Portal( "XXXX" );
    ReefAngel.DDNS( "XXXX" ); // Your DDNS is XXXX.myreefangel.com
    ReefAngel.ShowInterface();
}


fckgravity
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:11 am

Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by fckgravity »

Ok here is the code anyways.


I do have the portal alarms set up, but Like you said I need to tighten them up some I had my over heat set for a drastic situation. I just was putting to much faith in one feature without a backup which was dumb on my part.

Any reason why the unit would not get a signal for pretty much the fist time in two years? Should I switch out temp probes or anything? ....I just got up mid sending this and i picked up the unit and I heard the overheat fan kick on, looked at screen and it said temp was 185 . It quickly flashed and returned to normal so I guess there is a bad connection. I can recreate it if i jiggle temp probe plug
Last edited by fckgravity on Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
fckgravity
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:11 am

Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by fckgravity »

rimai wrote:Ahh... I think it is the time difference.
I'm on PDT, so 9:41 is showing to me as 6:41.
If I decrease 3 hours, I see no temp readings from 2:55 to 6:41, which is what you are mentioning.
So, I was looking at the steep increase showing in your side starting at 11:06.
I'm assuming this is not the right part that you are talking about then, is it?

Yes those erratic measurements were from me setting the thermostat on the heater to the reef angel probe readings with the heater in a plastic bucket.
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lnevo
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by lnevo »

You have no ports defined for the overheat. You should also consider a second probe. You could use the T1 probe for the heater and the T2 probe for overheat. Or we could leverage both with a little custom code. I would look into changing the first one for sure if you can't secure the connections.
fckgravity
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:11 am

Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by fckgravity »

I do have the original probe with the extension cable hiding somewhere. it always read about about .2 off from the other but i guess if its an over heat only probe ican take that into account. i assume i just set t1 or t2 to their specified ports depending on which one is wich when i plug them in. Im no coder so how would the leveraging work?
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lnevo
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Re: Please help!!!Heater malfunction

Post by lnevo »

yes. They are assigned their t1/t2 by the internal serial number. You'll have to see which is which.
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