Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Request new hardware or ideas for the controller
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hippiesmell
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:48 pm

Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by hippiesmell »

I've had issues with the relay box not turning off lights and have had the power brick inside the box burn out. That alone is cause for concern, but when I took the box apart, let me just say I'm concerned. Maybe I'm overly critical, but it looks like a fire hazard mess inside. I am one of the original purchasers of the RA and have the original relay box, so maybe the new ones are better, but I'm not happy with it. So, I was hoping there could be an alternative.

Would any of these work? I can't post links, but they're made by Digital Loggers.

Web Power Switch 6
Ethernet Power Controller III

They have a few more products that are similar, but you get the idea. They're inexpensive, they have discount bulk buys, and seem well built. Plus, they're made in the US.
rimai
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by rimai »

The 1st gen relay boxes are not around anymore for a long time.
It was a very limited production. I think only 50pcs were ever made.
The relay box has gone over lots of revisions over the years.
The new boxes use a totally different power supply.
Roberto.
hippiesmell
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:48 pm

Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by hippiesmell »

Ok, I'm glad they're different now. Are they still bare copper wire welded together inside? The potential for arcing seems to be high. That's what makes me nervous, especially being inside a plastic box. I'm also not sure why my light doesn't turn off, possibly because of the type of relay used. Are those different now?

Either way, are the posted products I listed potential alternatives? I would understand if you didn't want to comment on a competing product, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could create a relationship with that company and get custom boxes made.
rimai
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by rimai »

No, the relay boxes are totally different, even the relays.
I'm not so sure you can use them. I would actually be surprise if you could get them to talk to each other actually.
Roberto.
hippiesmell
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by hippiesmell »

Safety has become a big deal to me. Do you have any details on the new relay boxes, such as pictures of the inside? I like the RA and it has served me well over the years, but if the new boxes aren't a huge improvement I'll have to go a different route.
rimai
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by rimai »

All the source files are available for download and you can review them.
Roberto.
hippiesmell
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by hippiesmell »

I've looked at those, but it isn't very helpful. I need to know how it's assembled on the inside.
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arch
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by arch »

A possible alternative would be to control wireless switches via 433 MHz.

I was originally going to go down the path of building my own controller using something like the Ninja Blocks approach (see ninjablocks dot com) to controlling "actuators" - but ended up going with the RA because it could do so many things out of the box.
pandimus
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by pandimus »

http://forum.reefangel.com/viewtopic.php?p=23565#p23565

A few pics of my relay box on that thread.mine is version 1.7 I think it's pretty decently made. Also if you've used the product for this long hasn't it proven itself?
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cosmith71
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by cosmith71 »

The wires you see in pandimus' picture are the only ones in the box. The outlets are mounted on the PCB. I can't imagine it being any safer as far as construction goes.

--Colin
hippiesmell
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by hippiesmell »

pandimus wrote:http://forum.reefangel.com/viewtopic.php?p=23565#p23565

A few pics of my relay box on that thread.mine is version 1.7 I think it's pretty decently made. Also if you've used the product for this long hasn't it proven itself?
Thanks for the pics.

Has it proven itself? It hasn't burst into flames yet, if you consider that being proven. I've had problems with it, heat related problems, failing power bricks, outlets that don't allow the plug to insert all the way, and relays sticking on. I don't know if you've seen the 1st gen boxes, but they're flat out scary inside. I was sent a replacement power brick, and when I replaced it and put it back together it promptly shorted into a puff of smoke. Thankfully, Roberto sent two bricks. The pics you posted are wayyyy different. I'd like to see the other side if you know where.

Anyway, I'm not trying to rag on it too much. I knew it was a very new product when I got it. I just hope things have improved.
rimai
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by rimai »

You can see that the power supply is encased and PCB mounted now.
If you go next page on that thread, you will see the other side.
The tabs are where the sockets are mounted.
The sockets used are these:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/1164209
They are mounted flush to the PCB board.
Roberto.
hippiesmell
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by hippiesmell »

cosmith71 wrote:The wires you see in pandimus' picture are the only ones in the box. The outlets are mounted on the PCB. I can't imagine it being any safer as far as construction goes.

--Colin
It could be inside a metal box, for one. A circuit breaker would be nice. Maybe the new ones have a breaker, mine has a fuse. I have mixed feelings about surge suppression because MOV's can catch fire, but there are alternatives. Inside a metal box MOV's shouldn't be a problem. Built in GFCI would be awesome considering this is designed for saltwater, but I have those already.

That's just stuff I'm aware of. I'm sure there are other things that could be done by people more knowledgeable than I.
rimai
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by rimai »

It's got a 10A resetable breaker. No more fuse.
Those are not MOVs. They are inductive suppressor and don't heat up. They only become active when there is a inductive pump that is turned off. It suppresses the inductive spike generated by motors.
The box is made of flame retardant ABS and you need an excessive amount of heat for a long period of time for them to even start to produce any amount of risk to catch on fire.
Like I said, the relay box has gone very far from when it was originally introduced on gen1 RAs.
Everything is different.
Roberto.
rimai
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by rimai »

Just for your reference, the relay boxes are made of Underwriter Laboratories UL94-5VA approved material, which means the material cannot melt to a point that it drips and cannot produce any hole within the walls.
Also, 5VA material are put through severe tests that are 5 times greater than any other flammable retardant material.
Roberto.
hippiesmell
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Re: Concerns with relay box. Possible alternative?

Post by hippiesmell »

It sounds like you've made some good improvements. Much better than mine.
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