testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Request new hardware or ideas for the controller
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rossbryant1956
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Location: Montgomery Village, MD

testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by rossbryant1956 »

Nitrates? Ammonia? Phosphates? Any of that other stuff I am supposed to test my water for but never get around to? Ever been any work done on that? Thx
Roscoe's Reefs - Starting Over Again:

Building new 29g Nano after landlord went berserk over my 4 75 gallon tanks, Multiple RA's, Water mixing stations, etc. Your help welcomed in remembering all I've forgotten.
symon_say
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Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by symon_say »

I don't think there hobby grade probes for that, most probes for those measures might be pro grade and are very expensive.

If you want easier to read test use hanna instrument have digital meter for most of the important things, phosphate, calcium, alk even for iron.
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wolfador
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Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by wolfador »

If you can get ahold of the pinpoint probes they can probably be integrated.

http://www.aquacave.com/Pinpoint-Monitors-C182.aspx


The calcium probe seems interesting. Not too terrible a price if it means I don't have to spend 15 minutes with my API test kit trying to figure out how many drops it took. LOL
John
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symon_say
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Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by symon_say »

wolfador wrote:If you can get ahold of the pinpoint probes they can probably be integrated.

http://www.aquacave.com/Pinpoint-Monitors-C182.aspx


The calcium probe seems interesting. Not too terrible a price if it means I don't have to spend 15 minutes with my API test kit trying to figure out how many drops it took. LOL
That's what i was talking $170 for a calcium probe is to much i think, when you can get a hanna instrument calcium digital calcium reader for $50, unless you have a big tank full of SPS were calcium levels should be monitor with regularity i don't think it worth it, but it will be really nice, not to have to measure with dose annoying test kit.
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tkeracer619
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Location: Golden, CO

Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by tkeracer619 »

I use Salifert and can do a calcium test in roughly 90 seconds. I would switch kits if its taking you 15 minutes. The calcium probes are not very accurate anyways IIRC.

The hanna checker 736 for phosphorus is the one you want. The calcium checker is annoying.
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Deckoz2302
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Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by Deckoz2302 »

If I could - I would have a probe for calcium, alkalinity. I dose 7 different things by hand daily. And calc and talk twice daily. Only thing holding me back from dosers is the ability to control them via a probe. I just don't have the know how to create a board to have printed if I were to buy the probes.
tkeracer619
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Location: Golden, CO

Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by tkeracer619 »

7 different things? Why?

as far as alk, ca, and mg are concerned they use the same amount daily. You just dose more or less based on testing and once you find the right amount it usually stays somewhat stable needing adjustments as the tank fills in.
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Deckoz2302
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Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by Deckoz2302 »

I run a interesting setup. Currently maintain a zero water change aquarium except for weekly salinity adjustments. From salt creep. My tank maintains 2ppm nitrates and 0.06phosphates. With heavy feedings.

I dose these daily to maintain the attached values
Calcium -465ppm
Alkalinity -12.6dKH
magnesium -1390ppm
Strontium - 8ppm
Potassium -410ppm
Iodide - 0.06ppm
Iron - 0.15ppm

And some trace every few days. And liquid amino acids and carbohydrate and growth hormone daily.

I dont want to get into the semantics of what should and shouldn't be done regarding water changes. As this was an experiment that turned out successful. Results of the experiment..the stoney coral like clean water(0trates0phos) is a myth. Corals like dirty clean water...if that makes sense.

As far as the probes go it would simply be for at a glance or out of town purposes.

Heres 3 months...some was grown some was bought

Frogspawn - compare the green
End of November
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About 3 weeks ago
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Monticap
Beginning of December
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March 3rd
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Birdsnest
Beginning of December
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March3rs
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Tank
December 7th
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March 3rd
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rossbryant1956
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Montgomery Village, MD

Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by rossbryant1956 »

Dude, this is outrageous! Congratulations. I dose some of the Seachem stuff based on the recipes from Garf.org but nothing this extensively. Plus I've never heard of a no-water-change philosophy.

My problem is nitrates, they are high, stay high, won't come down. NH3 is low, way low. I've been considering vinegar dosing or vodka dosing but just haven't done it. I hear about others with low low nitrate counts but not sure how they do it.

Anyway, wanted to let you know you have a beautiful tank. Thx for sharing.
Roscoe's Reefs - Starting Over Again:

Building new 29g Nano after landlord went berserk over my 4 75 gallon tanks, Multiple RA's, Water mixing stations, etc. Your help welcomed in remembering all I've forgotten.
rimai
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Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by rimai »

Yeah, very nice!!!
I've seen zero water change tanks in the past on my trip to Brazil.
There are some guys there that have been very successful and have the tank going on to 3 years now.
All they do, at least what they told me, is vodka dosing, ceramic ring and Alk drip.
No other trace elements dosing or nothing. Their water turn over through the sump is super slow, like less than 1:1. So they are passing 60g through the sump in an hour on a 120g tank. I probably run 60g in 5 minutes on my 57g tank.. lol...
Closed loop on one system and Vortech on another system take care of movement.
The skimmer is the only thing extracting nitrates and phosohates.
The most amazing is that their skimmer is a DIY skimmer!!!
It was just amazing to me. I have a trip scheduled to Brazil again at the end of the year and I'm going to to visit them again :)
Roberto.
Rsmolik
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:04 pm

testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by Rsmolik »

Do a google search for algae scrubber. My integration has almost eliminated water changes and I have taken my skimmer and phos reactor offline! Side benefit tons of pods!!
Deckoz2302
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:05 am

Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by Deckoz2302 »

Yea its definitely interesting. Soooo roberto wanna print me some boards haha...and did you get the controller back yet? I never heard if you did or not
tkeracer619
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Location: Golden, CO

Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by tkeracer619 »

Yeah I am not going to begin arguing that stuff on this forum. On RC I am much more stubborn ;).

Nice tank. Is your black sand magnetic? Ever run a magnet through it?

Something you might consider is a calcium reactor vs dosing to keep you going. This should effectively allow easy monitoring of both Alk and Ca in a round about sorta way.

I use a MRC CR2 Dual Calcium Reactor. It is fed water by a Cole-Parmer Digital Peristaltic Pump and gets its CO2 from a aquariumplants.com electronic regulator. The PH is dead stable with a setup like this because water flow and gas rate never change based on media consumption. The ratio stays the same and the controller does nothing other then monitors the PH should something go wrong. With a setup like this my levels do not fluctuate and the reactor needs no adjustments other then once every couple of months as the tanks demand increases or decreases. If my feed pump fails my ph will go way down as CO2 is pumped in. If my regulator fails or I run out of gas my ph will swing to tank level. If the PH does not change, then I have no legitimate reason to believe alk or calcium have substantially changed. I work out of state (a lot) and require my setup to be 100% self stable for more then 10 days at a time, all the time. Magnesium is easy, keep it higher then 3x your calcium and your good. I usually go about 100ppm above 3x for a little headroom. There really should be no need to dose it daily. You can put some in your calcium reactor if your tank needs it. I dose it maybe once a month on a fully stocked 360. If your having to dose it daily I would be very suspicious that you are actually precipitating it.

Look at the flat ph level that this setup gives without any on/off action by the controller. If this changes, I know 100% that something is wrong. I still test 2x a month (when I am home) and so far so good. I have been running this tank this way for over 4 years with little variance of parameters.

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Too many variables to label 0/0 as being bad for hard corals in an aquarium. In nature they do just fine with those levels. It is however easy as heck to burn the tissues on hard coral trying to get to those levels in an aquarium. The trick is doing it slow and maintaining close to NSW levels. Higher alk and carbon dosing can destroy hard corals very quickly.
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symon_say
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Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by symon_say »

Deckoz2302 wrote:If I could - I would have a probe for calcium, alkalinity. I dose 7 different things by hand daily. And calc and talk twice daily. Only thing holding me back from dosers is the ability to control them via a probe. I just don't have the know how to create a board to have printed if I were to buy the probes.
Why don't you put some of those things in you top off water??
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Deckoz2302
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Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by Deckoz2302 »

I hear ya TK. You have to remember my tanks total volume is 37gallons 25 in the display. Its a bit different from running a larger tank like I have in the past where water changes took care of basically everything. As far as a calcium reactor - I have a Mini-cal calcium reactor that I have not hooked up yet. Something I noticed between larger and smaller tanks is when you do water changes its normally positive reaction in larger tanks. Where in a smaller tank it is not always positive because a swing can be drastic. Take my tank for example - if I don't dose my CA will drop from 465 to the 340s in 6 days. Dkh will drop from 12.6 to the low 8s and mag will drop about 100ppm. Iodide goes from 0.06 to 0 in two days. Iron goes from 0.15 to 0 in 4 days. Potassium will drop from 410 to 380. And strontium will deplete in 5 days.

I am in the process of setting up a 9 tank biotope system. 5 displays. 3 display fuges/sumps and a top off resovoir. The system will be in the 230gallon range which will bring me back to doing water changes as the water changes will have less of a negative effect and more of a positive due to greater water volume and less swings. And also the minical reactor will be incorporated.just waiting for my house to be built.

As far as adding it to my top off water - things like iodide. Iron and potassium don't stay in suspension in freshwater and will fall to the bottom of the resovoir getting pumped into the tank at higher concentrations then needed. Iodide and iron overdose can happen easily with I'll effects on both corals, inverts and macros. As far as calc alk mag supplements - I use a powder for each. I have been working with my brother who is in pharmaceuticals trying to modify a powder fractionator for reef dosing purposes - although will more then likely end up turning my bicarbonate to liquid and get dosing pumps for potassium, iodide, iron and alkalinity. I only mention alkalinity because everyone I know including myself when I used a calcium reactor - I could keep calc and may where I want but alk would always end up in the lower range of 7-8 when I like to keep it around 12 because the growth is astronomically faster when compared to a lower dkh.

One positive of the calc reactor is the fact that you can easily maintain ad 8.3-8.4pH without altering other things such as aerating more opening your house windows etc. The difference between keeping your phone at 8.1 and 8.3 is incredible in the fact that it ultimately doubles your waters supersaturation capability. Try keeping close to 500calc AND a dkh of 12+ with a pH of 8.1..it just doesn't work. Meh oh enough rambling ;)

Also no my black sand is not magnetic ;)
tkeracer619
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Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:50 pm
Location: Golden, CO

Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by tkeracer619 »

What is it? The last black sand I used was magnetic... it was terrible. Thinking about trying for a second time.
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Deckoz2302
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Re: testing\monitoring levels of things we should test for?

Post by Deckoz2302 »

Caribsea Tahitan Moon
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