unit randomly resetting

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:44 pm

So, I've been working on tracing an existing problem with my RA unit where it seems to randomly cycle power...

I've timed it - I've monitored electrical output in my house wiring - Monitored output through my surge bars, etc... nothing seems to explain it, but it continues.

Usually the cycles are only momentary, but today I caught it on a longer delay, I'd say about 20 seconds.

While it was cycling - I looked at my unit and it read a bogus date (12/29/2029 or something like that) and time (something like 10 something am) - this happened today at about 9:30 PM my time...... after the 20 seconds or so, the unit activated/cycled again and the correct date and time reappeared

Is there any reason why the unit would be flaking out lke this? I do have the wifi dongle, and I know back in the day I did set it to cycle periodically to clear the cache as I did (and still do sometimes) have connectivity issues as well..

I'll try whatever

I've got all holiday weekend to see what kind of programming trouble I can get into!

rimai · Post by **rimai** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:29 am

Do you have any expansion module?

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:11 pm

Sorry for the delay - forgot I posted the question!! haha

I have 1 expansion relay unit, so I'm running 16 ports, plus the WIFI unit are the only non-standard things installed.

rimai · Post by **rimai** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:07 am

Just as troubleshooting, would you be able to run it without the expansion relay module connected?

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:07 am

surely - ill give it a try and report the results....

on a troubleshooting note - I am also testing some programming I did last night which seems to have stopped the resetting.... I'm watching the unit to see if I can catch it in a cycle since I reformatted it last night...

Here's what I did (although honestly I have no idea why it would have made anything different)
- Reinstalled the arduino programmer on my computer so I had the latest update
- Wiped the unit to a RA_preloaded program
- Couldnt get my old program to load as the programmer was telling me the file was too big (which makes no sense, its the same program I had loaded on before!)
- Went back in time to an older program that magically was smaller.... uploaded it
- Decided to poke around and uploaded the wifi default settings and wifi test code to the unit, just to see what it did
- Reloaded the appropriate size program in

And, when it booted up the unit cycled power 7-8 times, but once it settled in it seems to not have reset... yet

I also used the new graphical wifi setup program to reset defaults on my wifi unit..

I know - too many things at once.. definitely bad troubleshooting

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:08 am

additionally - should I unplug the expansion, or un-program it for testing???

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:09 am

Aha - well, i managed to catch the whole process in a video - which I think is a fun addition. Unfortunately when the unit reset my camera was in "i hate you, you suck - blurry mode", but you can see the red light flicker, and I recorded the screen before (showing the bogus date/time) and after showing the valid date time after the reset for reference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=LxGyiO8cKEE

lnevo · Post by **lnevo** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:31 am

The part about memory tells me you have the wrong board type in the Arduino app. As far as the blinking red, that doesn't appear to be long enough to be an upload, so I don't think that part is happening...

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:55 am

lnevo wrote:The part about memory tells me you have the wrong board type in the Arduino app. As far as the blinking red, that doesn't appear to be long enough to be an upload, so I don't think that part is happening...

ha, well that poses another question I have never been able to answer since I noticed the board type options became available in the arduino app.

"How does one determine what board type to select in the Arduino app?"

I've been using Reef Angel w/ optiboot, as quite honestly, that is the ONLY board type selection that will allow me to upload anything, so my assumption is that it is the correct one.

Another question, you insinuate the unit should be uploading something.... Why??

rimai · Post by **rimai** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:43 pm

Are you using the original USB cable for your relay expansion module?
Is there any power cable or ballast around or close the cable?
I think the unit is resetting because of interference being introduced through the expansion bus.

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:23 pm

rimai wrote:Are you using the original USB cable for your relay expansion module?
Is there any power cable or ballast around or close the cable?
I think the unit is resetting because of interference being introduced through the expansion bus.

hmmm you should see the mess I have in there - but that makes sense.. the relay expansion module is basically laying right on my 400W MH ballast.... I'll put it across the room and see what happens - the cable is more than long enough

tentacles · Post by **tentacles** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:10 pm

I've had this exact same problem myself - date/time goes bonkers randomly. Usually seems to do something irritating like go to date 62/15/2032 and time resets to 12:00 (thus running my doser) while the lights maybe go off, maybe not and the PWM either goes to 100, stays where it should be at the actual time, or goes to the after hours setting of 11. It hasn't acted up in a few days but it's acted normal before for a while then it decides to go nuts a few times in a day maybe.

I've also had trouble with uploading on occasion and I had thought that it was a symptom of me not unplugging all the PWM, ATO etc leads prior but the last time I couldn't get the problem to go away. Give me some stk500 device not ready or something. I don't have the exact error message as I never wrote it down.

I don't have an expansion module, just the basic RA (2 months old tops). One temp probe, no pH, one ATO port in use, both PWM channels in use. Lights are LED driven by meanwell ELN60-48P.

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:22 pm

wow - well that makes me feel like less of a poor RA owner.. glad I'm not the only one!

So - update...

I moved the MH away from the Unit -

There are still two t5 ballast within 6" of the RA Expansion units current position... and probably 12" from the head unit.

I also stretched the Relay Expansion Module as far away from the equipment and head unit as possible -

No changes... here is the mess that I have now. I intend to reorganize this - I know it is a lot of electrical all in one spot.

rimai · Post by **rimai** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:03 am

Let's try this...
Remove the SDA and SCL jumpers from the head unit.
This will disable the expansion bus.
Let me know if this makes any difference.

mcgyvr · Post by **mcgyvr** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:20 pm

Mine is doing this EXACT same thing too.. four times times this week so far. seems to be totally random times when it does it..
no expansion modules at all just the cheapest RA w/pwm system.
no MH lighting either
The time is also still running a minute or so a day fast still (another post I had)..
All power cabling and RA serial/ATO/PH cabling are totally separated by at least 1 ft or more.
Also anytime I unplug the RA outlet box from the wall the RA resets to 00/00/00 date/time. (don't think its supposed to do that either..thought you have a battery in there somewhere)
Think I/we got a lemon..
Frankly I'd like to just buy another and when it arrives return this "lemon"..

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:42 pm

well, pulling the SDA and SCL jumpers seems to have solved it... I want to test for a few more days to be 100% sure though lol...

what is my next step?? keep the relay and wiring unplugged and add the jumpers back and see if it comes back?

treetopflyn · Post by **treetopflyn** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:14 pm

mine is still doing the same thing and I have no expansion modules

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:42 am

you guys should post some photos of your setups here too - maybe there is a correlation between the proximity of other equipment (or some other similarity) between all of our systems that could explain it???

strange that everyone else does not have an expansion module and is still seeing this annoying resetting! Once we find the commonality - maybe we can fix this

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:07 pm

So, when I plug the jumpers back in, and leave everything else unplugged (relay box completely unplugged, and nothing on it), the problem comes back

Does that mean my board is bad?

rimai · Post by **rimai** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:09 pm

That means you are picking up noise through the expansion bus.
The bus starts in the jumper, goes through the svga cable to the relay box and comes out on the USB connector.
If you are saying that you have nothing connected in the USB connector on the main relay box, the noise is being introduced probably in the svga cable.

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:04 pm

rimai wrote:That means you are picking up noise through the expansion bus.
The bus starts in the jumper, goes through the svga cable to the relay box and comes out on the USB connector.
If you are saying that you have nothing connected in the USB connector on the main relay box, the noise is being introduced probably in the svga cable.

but Ive got the expansion bus 100% disconnected... no USB to expansion, no SVGA to relay box.... nothing

the only SVGA cable that is connected now is from the head unit to relay box #1

rimai · Post by **rimai** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:55 pm

That's what I'm saying....
The expansion bus starts in the head unit, travels down to the svga cable into the main relay box and to the USB port on the side of the box.
I highly doubt that you would be picking up noise inside the main relay box, so it's got to be in between the head unit and the main box.
When you remove the jumpers, you are basically disconnecting the expansion bus at the source (inside the head unit), so the noise that you are picking up never reaches the head unit.

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:54 pm

rimai wrote:That's what I'm saying....
The expansion bus starts in the head unit, travels down to the svga cable into the main relay box and to the USB port on the side of the box.
I highly doubt that you would be picking up noise inside the main relay box, so it's got to be in between the head unit and the main box.
When you remove the jumpers, you are basically disconnecting the expansion bus at the source (inside the head unit), so the noise that you are picking up never reaches the head unit.

OK - and feel free to call me retarded, as I still don't understand... is the interference coming from my SVGA cable from my main box ??

Here's a video that hopefully helps illustrate it - while i say it takes 2 minute to set (as i timed the reset just before) this one took 7... ohhh well... I reinstall the jumpers, nothing else, it resets....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXRu92f4NLQ

Sebyte · Post by **Sebyte** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:01 am

Just a thought,

Electrical Noise can be induced into cables and rerouting then can sometimes resolve the issues.

I have had problems in the past, not with my RA, where the relays in a HVAC system were creating EMP when they opened. The contacts were pitted. This was causing intermittent issues with other electronic devices. Have you checked to see if there is any equipment in your building is switching at the time your RA resets?

I appologise if this is a basic question and you have already looked into that area.

rimai · Post by **rimai** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:38 am

Yes, svga cable connected in the main box and head unit.

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:21 am

OK, great - my plan of action now is to re-organize my electronics and get everything as far away and organized as possible to hopefully eliminate interference.... specifically, all ballasts will be removed from the area as I'm sure they are contributing the most to the problem.

If that doesnt work, and I need to test replacing the cable - do I need to get a new SVGA frm RA, or will an off the shelf SVGA cable work? I could make sure to order one with extra shielding in case there is something environmental here that I can't track down...

rimai · Post by **rimai** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:03 pm

You can get off the shelf if they have all 15 wires inside.
My experience is that most cables don't have it. They cut the number of wires to save money.

mcgyvr · Post by **mcgyvr** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:35 pm

I wonder how many issues/potential issues would be cleared up if RA included a serial cable with ferrite bead installed on it instead of the cheapest one out there. Seems there is a clear issue with interference.
Time to head to the junk box and find something..

I just got a new board in the mail hoping to clear up the issues I was having but after looking at the board there is clearly no attempt at noise mitigation or anything really.
Just a suggestion for future revisions/improvements.. Move this past a "DIY quality" device.

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:42 pm

Update - reorganizing my cabinet didn't help, but I did find an old VGA cable in my junk box that is probably double the thickness... seems to be working so far... more testing to continue today.

If this works, I know I'm also going to replace the cable to box #2 just to be safe and use thicker VGA cables from here on out.

estanoche · Post by **estanoche** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:22 pm

so, new testing results... with my old VGA cable removed and a junk box cable installed the resetting stopped - but the cables I found around the house don't seem to be high enough quality to have all 15 wires connected (as my relay box doesnt seem to be responding on all the relays)....

next step - source a 15 wire VGA cable... found this one that looks promising... http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/AIM ... bYQ6X7U%3d

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