tunze controllable pumps

[cain]

can i use the RA to rump the tunze controllable up/down?
using it to power the pump from 0-100% power?

[rimai]

Does the tunze controller offer any interface?
Vortech pumps offer their RF module as interface.
If not, I highly doubt you could.

[Bryan]

Roberto:

I have controllable tunzes and using their 7096 driver. It does use PC software, one day i will get around to sniffing it out and see what it is doing. Will see what I can find out, by hooking up a scope to the driver and see what it is putting out. I don't think it would take much to have it control the Tunze, but probably would need a separate MCU to handle the additional processing and outputs.

Capture3.PNG (58.53 KiB) Viewed 10406 times

[rimai]

Yes, that's how the vortech will have to be too... Separate mcu to handle processing.
How does it plug it in the computer? USB?

[Bryan]

The interface is where all the changes are made, then it connects and downloads to the 7096 via USB. The 7096 does all the pump driving.

[rimai]

Do you happen to know what type of device the 7096 got categorized as, under device manager on windows? I mean, I'm just trying to find out what type of communication it uses. Let me know what you find out when you get time to sniff around.

[Bryan]

Roberto:

Will play around with it this weekend and let you know. In the meantime if you are interested the Tunze software is available to play around with.

http://www.tunze.com/software-download.html?&L=1&C=CA

[rimai]

Here is what is in the MacOSX manual:

First Install FTDIUSBSerialDriver after completing the driver installation Install 7096.dmg.

I think they use the same chip we use to communicate with RA, which means they do not offer a direct connection to the 7096 controller. You would have to bridge through a computer in order to get to the 7096 controller.
If you get a serial port sniffer, you could see exactly what needs to be sent to the 7096 controller.
To resume the original question, as far as I can see, there is no way to interface the RA directly to the 7096 controller.

[Bryan]

Hi Roberto:

All the pc interface does is send the program settings to the 7096 controller. The controller does all teh work and switching etc. It is based on a ATMEGA8. The PC interface allows a backup of the settings and here is the output. Just a matter of determining which setting in the interface is stored in the the right EEPROM address I suppose.

0;40;40;0;0;100;100;100;100;200;15;0;1;6;0;1;5;1;82;0;4;1;1

Tunze settings and output

Capture3.PNG (78.61 KiB) Viewed 10369 times

[cain]

all i want is for RA to be able to variably change the speed of the pump, so i still need to purchase the 7096 controller?

thanks guys.

[Bryan]

I think the only capability the RA would be able to do is send settings to the 7096 to program it. To contriol the pumps with the RA would require a fair bit of hardware additions. The tunze are not contolled by PWM, and use a variable DC voltage I believe.

So yes if you want the fancy customability for the tunze you would need a 7096. That's assuming you are using a controllable Tunze pump. 6080 and 6060 are AC not DC.

[reefer]

Is there any easy way to get variable DC voltage from RA to control my LED and Tunze pumps?

[rimai]

Simply add a resistor and a capacitor and you got yourself a variable DC channel.
You may want to read through this thread: http://forum.reefangel.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=162

[rimai]

Ok, so after some digging, I came to the conclusion that it is in fact very easy to control tunze pumps.
All it needs to be done is convert PWM to analog and feed it to pin #1 on the DIN5 connector.

[rimai]

Actually, it seems that they accept PWM straight up.
If this is correct, by just feeding the boosted PWM to pin #1 and using pin #2 as ground reference, one could control them.
I need to get me one tunze pump to verify.

[cain]

Actually, it seems that they accept PWM straight up.
If this is correct, by just feeding the boosted PWM to pin #1 and using pin #2 as ground reference, one could control them.
I need to get me one tunze pump to verify.

i can't wait...

[rimai]

correct

[cain]

correct

means it can be controlled?
i need the pwm epxansion module for this?
hopefully they're not on back order.

[rimai]

Yes, you need the PWM expansion module if you don't want to use the standard 2 channels.
I don't know if it can be controlled by using PWM yet. I'm hoping Bryan can help us out and test really quick when he has some time

[cain]

Yes, you need the PWM expansion module if you don't want to use the standard 2 channels.
I don't know if it can be controlled by using PWM yet. I'm hoping Bryan can help us out and test really quick when he has some time

ok, i'll wait then. TY.

[Bryan]

Later tonight I will first scope the outputs of the Tunze controller and see what it.

[Bryan]

Roberto:

Ok, here is the scope results from my 7091 controller. The minimum running voltage for the Tunze is supposedly 30%, which seems to jive with the scope at 3.9v. What is odd is the Full ON voltage was only 7.3, thought it would be 10v, perhaps it's my controller. Would have thought full power would be 10v

The pics should be self-explanatory. Does this help.?

[rimai]

Nice!!!
Thanks Bryan!!!
Just to confirm:
Pin 1 - PWM signal
Pin2 - GND
Is it correct?

[rimai]

Oh, and to explain your question, with PWM signals, the receiver (pump in this case) usually doesn't care how much voltage the controller is sending.
Meanwell drivers are an exception though. They actually built it so it does matter. My theory is that they wanted to make convertion between D and P very simple, so the core electronics actually checks analog signals, instead of just PWM.
So for the receiver, what matters is how long the "Pump On voltage" in your design, stays at that level.
I'm guessing the pump only looks as if is it above 5V or below 5V to determine 0 or 1 binary state.

[Bryan]

Oh, and to explain your question, with PWM signals, the receiver (pump in this case) usually doesn't care how much voltage the controller is sending.
Meanwell drivers are an exception though. They actually built it so it does matter. My theory is that they wanted to make convertion between D and P very simple, so the core electronics actually checks analog signals, instead of just PWM.
So for the receiver, what matters is how long the "Pump On voltage" in your design, stays at that level.
I'm guessing the pump only looks as if is it above 5V or below 5V to determine 0 or 1 binary state.

Hi Roberto:

I don't think I explained myself and should have documented the scope picture better, but from the picture of the 7091 there is three knobs, Pulse, power1 and power 2. Pulse sets the duty/switching rate between power 1 and power 2. Power 1 setting is between 30-100% in voltage. Power 2 is the same 30-100%. (tunze pumps can't be run below 30%). So in summary the pump will run at 100% for

So from the scope pic Power 1 is on for roughly 2.5 seconds (Pump On time in picture) and at a voltage of ~7.5v (was set to MAX for the test), then it switches to Power 2 for approx 1.75s (Pump Off time in picture) for a voltage of ~3.9v (was set to MIN for the test). Not sure how u would use PWM to control this. Basically the driver needs a voltage from the controller at 0-10v, although my 7091 peaks at around 8v, so I may have that point wrong.

So in summary what u are seeing on the scope is the pump running at full power for 2.5 seconds and then at minimum power for 1.75s. Full power being 7.9v and low power being 3.9v.

Hope this helps

[Bryan]

Nice!!!
Thanks Bryan!!!
Just to confirm:
Pin 1 - PWM signal
Pin2 - GND
Is it correct?

Sent PM

[Bryan]

So in summary what u are seeing on the scope is the pump running at full power for 2.5 seconds and then at minimum power for 1.75s. Full power being 7.9v and low power being 3.9v.

Hope this helps

Just to add, if I set the power 1 and power 2 knobs to MIN for both the scope would displaya flat line at 3.9v, if set to MAX for both Power 1 and Power 2 the scope would display a flat line of 7.9v.

So if the power 1 and power 2 are set identical there is no switching that takes place between the pumps, as they are running at identical voltage..

[rimai]

Thanks Bryan.
I now understand how they work and I can say for sure it is not PWM, but analog signal.

[Bryan]

Yup, afraid so, so don't think it would be a easy task on the existing RA hardware.

[rimai]

Oh no, it's still pretty simple.
All we need to do is smooth down the PWM signal.
We already have 0-10VDC PWM signal.
The cable assembly only needs a resistor and a capacitor, which is fairly simple to do.